Things aren't what they seem

Santa Fe Radio Cafe host, Mary-Charlotte interviews Ken McLeod 

A snippet from the interview:
Form is emptiness is basically a statement that things aren't what they seem. We have this experience. Now we experience a table, a wall, light,  When we actually ask, "What is this we experience?" whether you look at from a scientific point of view or a philosophical point of view, the substantiality runs out like sand running through your fingers. What is this that we experience?  It's very, very difficult to describe.  And that's what form is emptiness refers to.  Experience when examined, is ineffable, you can't say what it is.